OL 007: David Doolin on Outsourcing his business

OL 007: David Doolin on Outsourcing his business


Inside the seventh episode of Outsourcing
Live, I interview a high-end consultant from San Francisco who showed us a different way
of how you can use outsourcing locally in the Unitesd States. Also in the quick tip,
I’ll share with you a free application that I use allowing you to setup professional email
accounts for any new people you hire. So let’s get to it. VO: Welcome to the Outsourcing Live podcast,
where you will learn to build a virtual team to run your business. And now, your host,
Tyrone Shum. Tyrone: Hi everyone, it’s Tyrone Shum and welcome
to another special podcast here that I’ve got on today on the Outsourcing Live channel.
Today I’ve got a special guest – who’s got a sort of a little bit different way of outsourcing
and I want to get him on the call because I wanted to share with you something that’s
very unique and also a little bit of left to center. The reason why I said that is because
this is not the ordinary way to go about looking at outsourcing or looking for staff to be
able to put onto your business. So what I like to do is just introduce you to David
Doolin and I’ll let David share his story with you. So welcome to the call David. David: Thank you, nice to be here. Tyrone: Thank you so much for coming on. For the people
who don’t know you, maybe let’s just share your story first and let people what you currently
do so that way we can put things into perspective. David: Right now, I am re-tooling my skill set into
web graphic, web application development. It’s a pretty big market for that around here
right now and my intent is to work for a short period of time in the development shop and
then moved back into management role. Tyrone: That’s pretty cool. Ah you – we had previous
conversations about what youv’e been doing and sort of examples as well and – I came
across your details and also your blog as well through David Risley’s blog. He actually
got you to come on to as a guest poster to talk a little bit about your experiences with
say what youv’e done with outsourcing. And you mentioned just then a little bit more
about high-end web development type of projects. And you don’t usually just go out there and
hire people to work on the team or put them into a business right? Yours is a little bit
different. Maybe share an example of what something that you could have potentially
done in terms of your business and yeah, how you’re making a living online as well? David: Right. So my main living isn’t online just
so we know, I don’t want to misrepresent myself. I used – I used my blog as inbound marketing
so it’s a marketing aspect of what I do. A good example of the biggest job that I got
in the past was a – game provisioning engine for video games, we’re simulators. Tyrone: Wow. David: And, what I came in a consultant to – to help
the client meet their proposal deadlines. So they had to – they had to embed a certain
amount of verbage. They had to write – they had to write every week project reports right? Tyrone: Hmm. David: Updates, progress to the funding agency so
I was brought on to talk about the specific aspect of how to provision a video game very
rapidly. And as a result of that, I ended up designing a system for it and then they
hired me to build it. Tyrone: Well what’s your background actually David? Tyrone: I have a PhD. in civil engineering from Berkeley. Tyrone: Oh okay so you’re pretty much the sort of
systems engineer’s very structured type of person. Is that right? David: I prefer to work in a fairly structured manner
where I’m keen at. Tyrone: Yeah. David: It’ll get a lot more done that way. Tyrone: Definitely. Well I mean I guess everybody
has strengths like that or different personalities and different strengths. And your strengths
is obviously in structures and also putting together and designing and civil engineering
or engineering type of things. What I’m curious about sharing with the audience is as you
mentioned you’ve done a video game – or yeah, you came in as a project type of person to
help put together this video game and through our conversations prior to this podcast was
you mentioned to me that you’ve been doing a little bit of high-end consulting for this
kind of people, this kind of clients as an example. What is it that you do exactly or entail?
I mean to share with the audience the sort of background of what it is that you do right
now. David: So the last consulting job that I had was
fairly small. But it was to develop a business model generating system. Did – Can you parse that? Tyrone: Yeah, I’m listening to that so it was like
– David: The details of that has been – if you follow
my blog you can follow along the people that I’m interacting with locally and in the East
Bay area and what the client wants is a way to – a way to develop viable business models,
small business models. For not really as an entire business but as to figure out how to
determine whether certain product or services are viable as a part of her business. Okay – so it’s not – I’m not actually determining
the viability or any particular thing, what I’ve done is I’ve created a system for her
to use to determine the viability of any particular thing. Tyrone: Okay ah – David: Do you understand how it works? Tyrone: Partially. I’m just trying to get my head
around some of these concepts that you do because the kind of high-end consulting is
really left the center as I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that the reason why
I got you on the call was the stuff that you do is not the norm. And this is why it’s really
interesting because I’m still trying to get my head around it and I’m trying to see how
for example your – your type of work also can – can relate to what you do for outsourcing
as well. I mean like – obviously David: Right. Tyrone: This is not something that’s – it’s just one
business where you’ve got like 3 or 4 different outsourcers or staff like that, you actually
come in together to put projects together and you use outsourcing as a form of means
to be able to put these projects to deliver to your clients. If I’m getting that correct.
Yeah? David: It’s purely means to the end. Tyrone: Yeah purely means to the end. So in that – David: With – Tyrone: Oh sorry. David: Let me backup to building these service models. Tyrone: Okay. David: The notion is that building out a system of
systems, in other words a process, a system where you can develop processes is that once
you get the process right, you can outsource that process. Tyrone: Yes, that’s right. David: So the thing is that you can’t outsource building
a process. Tyrone: And that’s where you come into play which
is to put – build these processes which once you built them like a system then you find
the right people to fit into these processes to do the work. David: That’s right. And the goal is, is that the
actual system itself can be hammered into a – into a regular enough – the client can
hire somebody to – bang away on them. Tyrone: And that’s where you come into play to be
able to consult them to set these processes out for them? David: Right so instead of the client having to do
all of the business analysis, look for business opportunities. It would – if she wants to
be able to have her employees, the people that subcontract with her or her can help
her with her clients to work through one of these processes and then after that, to determine
whether they have something viable that they can offer as part of their suite. Tyrone: Hmm, okay. David: Is that right? I mean it’s like okay let’s
– here’s what we have to do. Here’s everything that’s required to – to figure out the process,
how to offer it, what is going to cost to set it up, what’s the long term viability
of it, where’s the – you know when you get your profit, all that kind of thing. Tyrone: So – the kind of I guess work or the type
of consulting that you do is really to setup a process or the system upfront and the people
or your clients that are wanting to invest money into it and hopefully you can show them
the return of investment say after a year or two that they’ll be able to recrue the
investment and basically pay that consulting fee to you and then all the rest of the income
that they generate is basically their pure profit from the system. David: Yes so what I would commend or – possibly
some of your audience, when they need to – when they need to figure out that that’s something
that they want to outsource then they need to figure out is there a business in that
model or whatever it is. Right? So you know I do a little of outsourcing here
and there. I use ___ and ___ for my graphics. Anything that need to do with graphics I just
pay him to do it. But there’s no – that’s not really a business that’s – I can easily
pay somebody here. Tyrone: Yeah. David: But if I had – let’s say I had a client that
– needed a large number of textures rendered or some simulation of some video game then
I would help them figure out where – what the – the business model for that is. Okay. Tyrone: Hmm. David: If it’s a profit-center, it’s a cost-center
that where – where they’re looking at in terms of liability and then perhaps help them, help
set them up to get that work done. Tyrone: Yeah it’s really interesting because we’ve
had a little bit of conversation before this, this one I wanted to share with the audience
on – something that I think a lot of people don’t realize that outsourcing can be done
locally which is what you’ve done as well too and it does not come back down to how
cheap it is or the cost of labor is. I mean yes that’s partially one part of it but it’s
possible to be able to say find a client or a project that you do, that you might be charging
out rate as maybe $130 and you might be able to outsource it to somebody locally for like
$60 or $65 and you’re still making a margin on that or profit from that as well too. David: Absolutely. Tyrone: And that’s why I want to get you on the call
because it’s possible to do that you’re doing right now and to share from your point of
view that what is it that you look for in a project to explain that from point of view
before you do jump into it as well? David: It’s basically the same as everything else.
You really want a client to be sustained. They have to get something done, they’ve got
pressure coming from someone else and they have money so they need to have pain and they
have money. And, if they don’t have that, there’s just
no – there’s nothing there okay. Why I mean it’s like I’m not going to work for free. Tyrone: Yeah definitely. David: So given the pay, given the money then it
turns into is there a fit okay. Can I do – where is my value added to the project right? Tyrone: Yup. David: And in some cases there’s no value added,
some cases there’s a lot of value added so right here right now, most of the activity
in San Francisco is working on – very fast lift-ups startups to the finding runaways
are very short so you have to have something unique very, very fast. So they don’t need
so many – they don’t need people like me as much as they need people who didn’t know how
to push out the door really, really fast. But next year or two years once they are viable,
they need to – pound into the corners of the market right or to develop new markets, or
to extend their products in new ways or something like that. That’s where I come in. Tyrone: Ah okay, got ya. So I’m just wondering like – obviously San
Francisco is very much close to the height of Silicon Valley as well too it’s not too
far away from it, is it? David: It’s about 30 miles. Tyrone: Yeah so it’s not too far away and that’s where
a lot of the new startups, a lot of them are really cool stuff that we don’t see for a
while until it reaches mass markets where you get access to that. David: Yeah it’s actually – there’s so much – there’s
a lot of it that actually moved to the San Francisco proper as a matter of fact. Tyrone: Really, wow. David: But like discusses in San Francisco for something
that bloggers may recognize. Discusses in San Francisco, Life Hours is in San Francisco,
Get – is in San Francisco – what else, Twitter. Tyrone: Oh yes, yes. David: I mean I’m like a 20-minute train ride with
these guys. Tyrone: Isn’t that amazing and such a large company.
I’m not even sure if Twitter is in its profit yet. It’s still building up it’s – obviously David: Yeah, but Zynga – Zynga is six train stops
for me or something like that. Tyrone: So you’ve got really a huge type of market
that you can actually consult to there because obviously those clients there are now into
the stage where they’re feasible, they’ve got finding for large companies and also mass
market as well too then you can just walk in and just say look if they need a particular
service or consulting on particular part of projects then this is where you could come
in to come and then you look for the people. Do you really like – David: Find match – Tyrone: A matchmaker for skills and resources then. David: Yeah that’s right. I’m actually going with
what I’m doing right now, I’m going there next year. Tyrone: Okay, that’s really interesting though. So let’s talk a little bit more about in detail
I guess sort of nuts and bolts. Let’s say for example you got a project from a client,
this is I mean – you don’t need to reveal any details about the projects because I understand
they’re confidential but at the same time, just to give people sort of a process of how
you think ah – so that maybe there’s something that they want to do for their local – if
they got – if they are consulting business as well, how can they also outsource this? For example you take on a project, you sit
down with the client, what happens from there that allows you to be able this is a value
added on type of project or a project that you want to take on as a consultant? David: That’s a really good question. Ah the first
– the first thing that has to work is that there has to be a decent fit okay. There’s
a – I turned down actually I turned down a lot of work actually this year because though
it’s just not – it’s not a really good fit. Tyrone: You’re in a position to be in though. To the others I’m going to turn that down. David: Well it’s not a matter – the thing is we live
in a day and age now where I will take – I will not take on a sketchy product, project.
I won’t take on a project that I can’t head a homerun on. So if there’s any – I won’t
take on any project where I aint feel any risk. Do you understand what I mean by that? Tyrone: Definitely yeah I mean like, the thing is
if you did take on those projects, there’s obviously going to be more issues down the
track. You don’t know what type of issues though but – there’s – David: Right so – some clients, some cranky client
comes up, prospect comes in with some kind of wacky doodle project, they do hurry, they
don’t have a lot on money, I could probably do it. Okay but the thing is, it doesn’t pay
that well anyway right? Tyrone: Hmm. David: And the client is cranky and they are in a
hurry and they don’t value – they have no concept to work with – you know the value
of what you’re asking for right? So the one handy I can use the money on the other hand
– no. I’m not going to deliver with this person no matter what – period. Right? Because they’re
clueless. Tyrone: Yup. David: And so I make a little money and then I had
someone running around telling people oh well – you know, they didn’t do really good job. Forget it don’t do it. Tyrone: Yeah, that’s a very good point there and at
the end of the day, you want to deliver value and then – David: Of course I deliver value and if somebody
can’t come to me with a valuable project, I’m not going to do it. That means you ain’t
robbing. I ain’t robbing. Tyrone: Well obviously you’ve done a few projects
that have kept you going to where you are today. Like obviously it’s worked out really
well in that sense. Ah – have you – have you seen many projects that – or have you taken
on any projects in the past that haven’t worked out well and that you didn’t even use outsourcing
or just went – the unexpected way? David: I tend to – if I’ve got something that’s out
being outsourced then I don’t – if I’m not making a margin on it I get rif of it fast.
And this is – I’ve had a couple where I ended up eating it, just eating it you know. Tyrone: Yeah, how do you determine a client that’s
going to be paying as well and how do you determine from that contract like how long
something’s going to take? David: That’s a really good question and – the – the
answer depends on a client and it depends on the contract. It depends on the work. So
how long where it takes is just a really, that’s a really hard thing. Tyrone: But before you actually jump into it, do you
go out and find like say for example people to outsource and then consult with them on
how long this is going to take to develop or you make the decision? Yeah – David: Oh yeah. If I can. Let’s say I’m going to
do – let’s say I have a – let’s say get a little WordPress work or something like that,
I’ll do a little bit of that no problem. Tyrone: Yeah. David: If I haven’t done it before – and the client
like again is like they’re in a hurrry and they don’t want to pay very much then I’ll
pass it up. If the work is – if the work is fair and I think I can do it, I’ll ask around
about what’s the right price for this. So around here, you do a custom page, it’s about
300bucks. Tyrone: Yep. A custom page for say WordPress theme
you’re talking about? David: For WordPress templates, about $300. Tyrone: That’s pretty good. David: Yeah it’s not bad. The – they can actually
take quite a while. Something like that I might – I might outsource that out you know.
I maybe able to get that done for $100 somewhere else, I have somebody particular in mind that
can do that for $100. The thing is, is that I don’t want to spend 2 hours of my time doing
the details. Tyrone: Yeah that’s what I was going to say. By the
time you spend your two hours which is probably worth more than $100, where does that – you
know figure come back to to be able to return you back on investment because obviously you
got to put a margin on top of that as well? David: Right. So, I guess that’s another really good
– a good topic to talk about too is the – outsourcing – outsourcing, subcontracting and freelancing
and consulting, there’s a whole mix of things that get on. You can sort of do – you can
end up doing all four of those activities at the same time. Tyrone: All right well maybe explain. I’m curious
now. David: Okay this is good and I think perhaps a lot
of your viewers might find themselves – in potentially viable businesses by understanding
the difference of all of these stuff. Tyrone: Sounds good okay, let’s go. David: Okay. Consulting is – is something that you
don’t – that you have to – you communicate with the client right? Tyrone: Yes. David: And you design something but you don’t have
to actually do anything. Tyrone: Yup. David: As a consultant though what I do is lend it
to proof of concept, prototypes, things like that. Tyrone: Okay. David: Okay and that tends to pay pretty well. As a freelancer, I’m on the hook for working
code. Tyrone: Ah yes that’s right because you’ll be doing
the work. David: I’m actually doing the work, not so much money
in there all right. Tyrone: Because you’re really trading your hours – your
time for your hours really. No time for the money that’s what I should say. David: Both do time for money, both do time for money
trades okay. If you do the consulting on a design build basis or you take on a project
where you have to figure out what things to be done for the client. If you’re good you
can figure that out and you can outsource the doing of it. Tyrone: And that’s a good example actually for this
as well. People take on web development projects like building up website, something like that.
All you really have to do is to understand what the client wants, go and find the people
to outsource it to like web developer, graphic designer and if you’ve got those two people,
set a price. I would say from my experience set a price with them and then deliver that
price with a margin on top back to your client. David: This is – this is how businesses have been
performed for – hundreds of years exactly. Okay. And that puts you in the realm of small
businesses okay. That’s a very – that’s like ah – similar to – well somebody owning any
other small business. You’re selling the service, you’re selling a product. Let’s say you’re
accountant right? Tyrone: Yes. David: As an accountant, you have a little pool of
bookkeepers. Tyrone: Yeah, that’s right. David: You don’t – you don’t keep using bookkeeping
services to other people and then you sell the consulting to people to make sure that
their books are legal. Tyrone: Yep. David: Okay so – Tyrone: That’s a very stranded type of model that’s
around for hundreds – like centuries. It’s been around in like centuries. David: So we’re selling like with all these technology,
it’s like we can do the same things with technology. Tyrone: Hmm, and how do we – how do you – how do we
– can we do it that way with technology? David: That’s sort of very good question and I believe
it starts with skills. Tyrone: Okay. David: So one of the things that I talk about David
Risley’s guest post article that I wrote was that for many of the things that I outsource,
I like to understand what I’m doing, I like to understand the skill. So I’ll do a fair bit of skill building, get
a picture of the skill good to work and then I outsource what I don’t want to do, do what
I do want to do, wrap the whole thing up, put a margin on it and pack the backup with
the client. Tyrone: Ah okay. Yep, that makes absolute sense. Very,
very simple basis of doing something like that can actually lead to obviously quite
a huge margin because there’s actually – David: It’s – I won’t say a huge margin but you can
make some money at it okay. Tyrone: Yup. David: The thing that – that is that I had found
out with all the outsourcing that I’ve done is that there’s not a – you can’t just sort
of fire off a description of a project and had it come back in shape to make big bucks.
That’s just not going to happen. Tyrone: No, that’s very, very much true. You just
can’t – can’t do that because there’s always going to be continue to seize in and all that
extra other stuff that comes with it, dealing with the client, bugs, so forth. David: Right, that’s right and in fact my experience
is that the lower the pay, the less that I pay somebody the more that I have be all over
there to figure out – to make sure that they’re doing the work correctly. Tyrone: Yeah actually, that’s a very good point that
you’ve raised up because it really comes back down to what you pay for is what you get.
So if you’re hiring someone who’s very specialized skill and you’re paying them a good amount,
you’re definitely should be getting the work that’s been delivered for that. David: Right and for the people that I do – well
that I do a very high end work with, they – they know that I will deliver something
that if they couldn’t they go. They don’t have – they can wave their arms and – and
– basically give me some sort of general – feeling that they kind of want something that looks
like this and maybe does something like that and I can come back with something that they
like but they have to pay a lot of money. Tyrone: Yeah that’s really the aim of the game is
if they don’t know what to do then that’s where you do walk into say look this is what
I charge because I’ve got the skill set and I know that this is something that’s possible
to do. David: Yes, I will do your thinking for you. Tyrone: Exactly. So we’re talking about consulting,
freelancing, what were the other two things that were discussing as well? David: Oh my goodness I think I can’t remember. Subcontracting? Tyrone: Subcontracting and outsourcing that’s right. David: And outsourcing so – on the freelancing – I’ll
give you some other advice on this because it’s all to me it’s all wrapped up. You know, pure outsourcing is just one aspect
of a business. Did maybe – you maybe conducted survey other ways. A good freelancing markup
around the Bay Area is about 400-500%. Tyrone: Wow, that’s pretty good. That’s a very high
markup. David: Well it’s not because you have to – unless
you’re the fortunate position where you have work coming to you all the time, by the time
– by the time you do your actual business and you’ll get to work, for every hour you
bill, you need to be working about 12 to 15 minutes on the actual work. Tyrone: Oh okay yeah. David: So basically you have to be able to get a
whole week’s work done in about 15 to 20 hours. Tyrone: Got ya because by the time you finish that
work, then you’ve got to go out there and look for more work and that’s the reason why
the margin’s a little bit higher because it’s going to cover that time when you don’t have
work. David: This is typically how – it’s always been this
way except that we have with in the US with competition coming in from India or from China
or other places – then what happens is – let me give you an example. Have you even used
eLance? Tyrone: Yes I have, that’s where I started to learn. David: Yeah so put a project on eLance. Some sort
of general – you know not too difficult, a project maybe a website or something right? Tyrone: Yup. David: And within five minutes, 10 minutes match
you got six or eight people that are replying to it. Tyrone: That’s right – very quick. Especially from
India, they’re very quick on the board. David: And the thing is they’re not charging very
much right? Tyrone: No. David: Okay so here’s the thing. Those people that
replied – they don’t do any work, they don’t do the work. Tyrone: Yeah I totally agree. I’ve had that happened
to me so many times, all they want to do is just say yes, yes, yes I’ll do it. And then
hoping that the person will fall for it and to pay them upfront and then will not complete
the work. I’ve had that happened to me before. David: Right. Tyrone: And I know a lot of people have also felt
that way too. David: Yup or maybe they’re funding a company. Tyrone: Ah yes that’s right. David: So they have someone who’s in charged of you
know, we’ll call it sales or business development where his guy has bunch of windows open, he
just hit refresh on oDesk or eLance and all these other things can try to pick up projects
as fast as he can in his team. The actual team itself doesn’t get paid very much right? Tyrone: That’s right. David: But the thing is, now you got a point in contact
with somebody who doesn’t actually do work and may not even know how to do the work. Tyrone: Yeah that’s the worse part about it. David: It was your time worth. Tyrone: You’ve lost your time basically because you’re
going to be speaking with this person who might beat around the bush and not even get
anything done for you. I totally, totally know that feeling it’s frustrating. David: Here’s another one. A particular mailing list, I’m not going to
say who it is but a particular mailing list, there’s somebody who has been – he’s got 50,000
pages out of his static site that he has to put in WordPress. 50,000 pages. Tyrone: Wow, that’s a lot. David: Yeah that’s a lot but the thing is the client
doesn’t have any money. This client doesn’t have money. Okay well that’s fine whether it’s a static
site. How hard could it be, you just scrape it right? Tyrone: Yeah. David: Well you just download the source and just
go through it. Oh because he doesn’t know how to program PHP. He doesn’t know how to
do anything of it, no HTML no nothing. And the thing is is like he’s trying to turn his
business around. A business with 50,000 pages okay who cannot
afford to hire anyone for any money to turn the business around. Tyrone: So he’s in a stale situation. David: Well the thing is he’s not. Whatever reason
he’s not doing this for money right because we said he’s not doing it for money. He wants
to help them turn their business around. The thing is they don’t have a viable business. Tyrone: Then there’s no point. You haven’t looked
at the core the reason why they’re doing it as well. David: With 50,000 pages, if they don’t – you know
they should be able to hire somebody for 5 or $6,000 to come in over the course of a
week and just – and just deal with it. With a viable business, you know what’s – you know
$5,000 in revenue is what – Tyrone: Nothing compared to the revenue they should
be generating exactly. David: Exactly. It’s a business expense right at
all. And it’s like man I’m not even getting it at all with this, not even just keep my
mouth shut. And if you think about that, let’s say you have you want to do a sales page or
a custom page or some other thing that you think oh well this is really simple, it’s
not very hard I don’t want to spend a lot of money on it. So you end up screening around for three to
four days trying to find somebody who’ll do the work for 10bucks an hour – right? Tyrone: Yup. David: And it turns out that yeah part of unreasonable
idea because you waste all the time and you get somebody and you doesn’t even convert. Well, you know it’s – that the notion is if
you’re going to outsource, make sure you outsource in a right thing. Tyrone: That’s right. David: And pay whatever it takes. You know I sell
– I sell a few projects on my site that are not viable. You know I’m upfront about this,
you know they aren’t making me any money so I’m not going to spend time on it. Tyrone: And that’s true. David: Yeah. Tyrone: Basically the real core to a lot of people’s
issues with running any business is not to start outsourcing first but to have a look
to see if your business is viable first, is it making money to be able to outsource. Otherwise,
you’re just throwing money out the door. David: That’s right. You got it exactly right and
that’s why some of my staff – you know – my main site – the website in the weekend I’ve
had everything done right now more on local play. But a lot of products I have they’re
good products, you know the quality is there but the market isn’t there. So I’m not going
to spend anyy time on it. I’m not going to spend my time I’m not going to chase the outsourcer
for it – it just – I’m just not going to worry about it. Tyrone: Definitely. David: And yeah – and what I see is around – I read
this in blogging that there’s notion that all you need is you kno get it all outsourced
you know and you can make money. Man, it’s just like who did – you really believe
that? Tyrone: Well actually let’s start – I agree on your
point of view it’s that – it is not a very wise decision to be able to outsource everything
if you’re doing blogging until you know you are making a revenue on your blog or whatever
you’re doing with regards to your business. It doesn’t make any sense. The only thing
is you need to look at to see where the – well actually I’ve said to people in the past outsource
it first but before you do outsource it ensure that your plan that you’ve got a project or
whatever blogging you setup – you’re setting up right now is going to actually produce
revenue because you can do statistic research and you can also do projections on how much
you’re going to do. David: Exactly. Tyrone: But I think there’s so many people out there
with blogs who just outsource it and just blog design and just continue to write, put
content on it and they don’t have a goal to achieve and there’s nothing that they know
exactly where they are generating the revenue from. Well that’s the other thing. I was actually
I think listening to a podcast and now talking about the term monetization. Instead of actually
monetization, people should be saying this blog has money to be made from advertising
because monetization is a term that is potentially going to make money but it’s not saying that
is making money. And that’s a bit of an issue because if you’re to compare to say like either
restaurants or going out to find a – I don’t like making a printing business, they know
that they’re going to make money from their business because restaurant has to sell food
and customers will pay them for the food. David: Right. Tyrone: The same thing has to be true for blog. People
are going to be reading your content, how are they going to be paying for you for writing
that content or even creating that content, where they’re going to generate the revenue
from. And that model of the blogging model is a backward process because you don’t make
any money until you start selling something or you advertise something on your blog and
people continue to blog there just for the fun of blogging. I mean it’s fine that they’re
doing it for the fun but if they’re not – David: Right. Tyrone: If they are intentionally wanting to make
money from the blog, they’ve got to actually have that upfront before they even start to
outsource. David: Yeah you have it precisely correct. Precisely
and if people want to do it as purely inbound marketing which is what I’m doing right now
with all of my blogs, is they’re just inbound marketing. It’s just – this is – this is how
it already knows how to do, it’s pretty smart. If it needs something from – you know get
a hold of it. Tyrone: Yeah. David: The thing is I track the time that I put into
it. Tyrone: That’s exactly what people need to do and
what you’re doing is exactly right because then you can see what the return is. David: That’s right. I have a spreadsheet – for each.
I’ve got three main blogs that I track time for because they’re the ones that I’m concerned
about with – for inbound marketing purposes for selling consulting and small WordPress
jobs. But yeah I track the time that I put into
it. The spreadsheet has – several tabs on it, it’s broken down by the hour for each
month – each day of the month – excuse me, it’s broken down by the date for the whole
year right. 12 months, 31 days, how many hours per day. Right? So it gets more played into a – cost. All
right so there are cost tables and there are revenues tables. How much does this bring
me – always the return on it. Right? So I do that – I did that for three of my sites.
And I don’t know anybody else that does that. Tyrone: I think what you’re doing is absolutely a
genius thing because to be honest, a lot of people spend a lot of time on blogs and don’t
realize how much time it takes because – particularly for the bloggers out there who are not generating
income currently from their blogs and spending hours and hours on it. Hoping that one day
that they’ll make money from the blog, it’s very, very difficult to really substantiate
that. And once you have a time there and you divide
it by how many hours and how much revenue you bring in, it really brings you back down
to realization thinking is it a viable for them. I mean no offense to bloggers out there.
I mean there’s millions and millions of them and I know there’s a lot of them who enjoy
writing for fun that’s great but we’re talking specifically about blogging to obviously generate
income and then eventually using that model to be able to fund say for example outsourcers
and people to help you get the work done. David: Absolutely. Tyrone: Because that’s the purpose of actually even
running a business. David: Right and – with the – for various other – I
actually do have some – sites that I’d like to develop in the future where I would be
willing to outsource the entire concept, actually all of it. But the thing is, is that I don’t
have the time to put the business model together for it. You see what I’m saying? So I’m not aligned to those, I’m not aligned
through those sites at all right now and just leaving them set. Tyrone: Yeah so I mean there’s sort of like it can
be R&D research and development projects down the track when you do have time if you want
to put them in or if you don’t see the return of investment on them then obviously you put
them on the side and just let them be until you do decide it’s time. David: Definitely, it’s – that’s where – that’s another
– thing that I don’t do with social media. You know people talk about the social media
and I can tell you really in separate way to get to figure your return of investment
on social media really simple. Tyrone: And what’s that? David: Well typically you just put the number of
hours a day you spend on social media on one slot and then put the amount of money. Tyrone: I love it, it’s so simple. It comes back down
to basics. David: It’s simple, it’s really simple. You don’t
have anything complicated about it at all you can just tie directly to you gross revenue
okay. And then if you want to – if you want to separate like that down into various – you
know aspects of the revenue stream that’s fine. But for most small business bloggers,
it just really – it just comes down to pretty much you know you spend so much time on social
media, this many sales paid from that. Tyrone: Yup. David: It’s not that hard to figure out. Tyrone: It’s really basic and the post that you’ve
raised up today have been absolutely valuable and I know that the viewers out there just
come back down to basics before you do do anything with regards to even blogging or
outsourcing, you need to look at these simple basic principles and comes back down to these. Absolutely. And the great thing you know David,
I really appreciate your time on the call today in this interview, the thing that I
believed that I picked up and hopefully the audiences as well have seen is that outsourcing
doesn’t necessarily have to be meaning the lowest cost that’s available. You can actually
do quite a lot with it like what David’s done with high-end consulting where you can still
hire people for as – for making a margin on top. I mean you can hire someone locally still
and still make a margin and profit from that. It’s just how you put value on for a client
or for people and I just want to sort of eliminate that value, that thinking that outsourcing
always has to be its lowest cost. It’s really what are the skill sets that people bring
to the table and how can that add value to a project. Would you agree with that David? David: I definitely. And I also would – I wouldn’t
stop people from outsourcing right off that bat if they have a very clear picture of what
they hoped to find out. Tyrone: Hmm absolutely. David: If they have the money and they have the business
model they think will work, then they can you know go ahead. You know outsource it.
Figure out you’ll be paying a certain amount of money to have the remote team do the work
and after a certain amount of time you will be making money or you won’t. Really simple. Tyrone: Really, really simple. What I like to do as well David, usually at
the end of every podcast, I usually ask my guest to share with the audience what is the
one thing that is working for you with regards to outsourcing in your business right now
that they can take away as being an action step to implementing in their business as
well? David: Communication. You have to – if you cannot
communicate to people that are doing the work, you’re in a lot of trouble. Tyrone: Absolutely and that’s – that’s the main form.
If you don’t communicate with people, you really don’t have a team. You don’t have any
work done actually. David: Communication is – it’s part of your overhead,
you know if you are billing for that, you’re eating it. That time you’re eating that time. Tyrone: Yeah absolutely. David: Yeah. Tyrone: That’s awesome David, thank you so much for
that. Well how can people get in contact with you if they want to find out more about you
as well David? David: The best thing to do is they can hit my website
Doolin. Which is really easy and they can find me, they can scrape me out of that. Tyrone: Okay so just spell your website for some people
who might not know the website. David: D-O-O-L.in Tyrone: Dot com? David: No. D-O-O-L.in. Tyrone: Oh okay well I’m glad you did spell it. That
is such a hit, very unique name. I might as well grab that one too, good on you. All right well I’ll definitely put it on the
show notes as well if you want to check out the show notes, you can go to Outsourcinglive.com/
and I’ll put in the episode that’s related to this as well and you’ll be able to see
the link straight to David’s blog as well. Well David, thank you so much for coming to
the interview today, it’s been a real pleasure to interview you and share your story and
provide some inside experiences on what you’ve done with outsourcing as well so thank you
again. It’s time for the Outsourcing Live quick tip.
Inside today’s quick tip, I want to share with you a really, really powerful tool. All
available from Google and it’s called Google Apps. Now Google Apps has been my foundation
on my structure and setting up and managing all my emails, documents, calendars and pretty
much everything that runs in the backbone of my business. Now, if you’re wanting to
have something like a professional email address for each and everyone of your staff or your
virtual team members, you can easily set that up through using Google Apps and in my instance,
say for example I’ve got supportoutsourcinglive.com, I can use Google Apps to set that up. Whereas
if you just setup a normal free Google account I should say, it would be something like outsourcinglivegmail.com. Now if you set it up through Google Apps,
it sets up automatically in those professional ways where you can see it as supportoutsourcinglive.com
and it’s actually very, very easy to setup. To setup a new account and also to get a free
one, because Google Apps is usually a paid application if you don’t know where to go,
here’s a little trick for you. Just go to this which is Outsourcinglive.com/google spelled
G-O-O-G-L-E apps A-P-P-S. And you’ll be taken directly to the sign up page there where you
can just setup and setup a free account for your organization or for your website and
just follow the instructions to set that up. Now if you want to get a tutorial on how to
do that as well, I have a step by step tutorial which shows you what to do. Simply go to my
website on Outsourcinglive.com and the tutorial is under Outsourcinglive.com/Googleapps-tutorial
and I’ll show you step by step on how to setup a free email account, how to setup all your
documents and also calendar as well and you can just get that all done with the tutorial
that I’ll show you on my website. Now, if you like more resources like this
one, you can find them inside Mass Outsource Mastermind along with video tutorials and
step by step instructions showing exactly how I use them. To get a 30-day no risk trial
membership to Mass Outsource Mastermind, simply visit FreeVideoSet.com. Until next time, I
wish you success in your quest for outsourcing.

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