Grow and Expand Your Business Through Hiring with Matt Hagberg

Grow and Expand Your Business Through Hiring with Matt Hagberg


are you ready to scale and outsource
your business okay let’s go welcome to the outsourcing and scaling show I’m
your host Nathan Hirsch a show where we talk about everything
Amazon shopify ecommerce and digital marketing let’s get started
hey everyone welcome back to the outsourcing scaling show today my guest
is Matt Hagberg Matt how you doing today I’m great how are you I am it great I’m
excited to talk to you I know you’re a system and process guy all inside
business operations for those who don’t know matt is a college dropout who
jumped around different industries before finding a home in the pest
control business created a business that was spreading to over 1 to 3 locations
every year before eventually exiting out of the business selling it he then got
into e-commerce growing an e-commerce business from zero to six figures and
three months before finding clickfunnels and now is a business operation
consultant we’re gonna talk all about that and I definitely want to hear your
story before we do let’s take a step back what were you like growing up
before the pest control business were you a straight-a student were your rebel
did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur
seems like you you’ve been doing that such a young age yeah so I kind of went
back and forth I was a straight-a student for a very long time when I got
in for my teenage years obviously I wanted to rebelled a little bit so
things got a little rocky around that timeframe but right straight-a student
everybody told me you know just keep keep getting good grades jump into
college you can do whatever you want people kept telling me you know you
should be a lawyer because you can hey you can do it be a paper lot of money
and that was really a big driver for me there was always like when I was a kid I
would go around the neighborhood trying to mow lawns like I was always trying to
be out there doing something entrepreneurial on something making
money in my way but it never really dawned on me and I didn’t have anyone in
my life to show me that that was actually like I could make a life out of
being a business owner right so I just kept on that path of just getting the
grades and eventually going to college and trying to become a lawyer it was in
college when I realize didn’t want to do that so rather than
spending 10 to 15 grand a semester to basically just go to school and party I
decided to just bail out and just started working different jobs in
different industries to figure out what it is I really wanted to do you know
even at that time was doing small entrepreneurial things but he didn’t
didn’t have anyone to tell me like hey you can actually turn that into a
lifestyle so with that pest control business what
goes into expanding different locations I mean you have to be doing something
right you have to have your your process is down I mean you can’t be at all these
locations every day managing everything talk to me about that because I feel
like a lot of entrepreneurs don’t create a business that they can just roughly
replicate over and over and over I have the same thing happen in different
places yeah definitely so the first step was really figuring
out in in our one location what is it that we wanted to accomplish and step
back and figure out a the steps that it takes in the day-to-day operation that
takes and be who we need if in order to fill those in so that was really what we
did was in the first year it was me building a team of people that can just
do the day-to-day stuff and I would oversee them but then the next step was
now I need someone to replace me so I started looking for people the good
thing is we’ve always been blessed with finding good people and bringing them on
so one of my first managers was a guy I’m still friends with today and he runs
a non pest control company in the same area but it was really about figuring
out what needs to get done consistently and then just hunting for those people
and putting putting them to the test to figure out if they can do those things
day in and day out and then putting them in place before then stepping away and
going and starting another location we had made the mistake of not finding the
right people before expanding and I then had to go back and clean that up and
figure out how to do that the right way so that was a little bit of a that was a
whole other you like gaming but really that’s what
it is just stepping back and figuring out what it is that that your team needs
to be doing while you’re gone and then finding the people to do those things
how much check-in are you doing with each location and then we’ll move
forward we’ll talk about e-commerce but how much are you calling them every day
are you getting weekly reports how does that work so it really depended on the
people that I found but every day we talked it was but when we talked every
day it wasn’t like hey give me all of tell me everything you did in the last
eight to twelve hours it was hey here’s the key you know key performance
indicators the KPIs that we need to pay attention to because those are the
things that are kinda like the pulse of what’s actually going on and those would
be anything from like number of sales we created enough lost customers that we
had and then the people philia culture team as well it was like how many people
are hiring I mean I’d be fired I mean walked away what kind of
complaints do we have that are coming in those types of things so it was
performance and operations but also the people how are people feeling how they
respond to us are they happy do you do things that are fun it was really we’re
gonna figure out how to balance culture and operations at the same time and are
those our same KPI is you you have your clients do even today or does it change
depending on what industry there is that the it changes on depending on industry
but not as much as you would think in my experience every industry obviously has
for example if I’m working with a supplement company they’re different
they’re kpi’s are a little different based on sales based on they might need
a smaller staff those types of things but there’s still a culture and they’re
still in operations and see no matter what they’re still those factors that
play a role so you joined e-commerce you had some success early on what is it
like structuring an e-commerce business it was actually very
similar so as I put this – it was my first time doing it and so as I was
building and putting it together I was obviously doing it all on and then I
stepped back and I looked at all the different pieces of what it takes to run
the business on a daily weekly monthly basis and then so I listed all of them
out and this is one of the things I teach my clients is I listed all of them
out and I put them in these four quadrants and the four quadrants are in
the bottom right I have things I hate doing and I’m bad at in the bottom left
quadrant I have things I’m good at but I hate doing in the top right quadrant I
have things I like doing but I’m bad at and then in top left quadrant
I have things I’m good at and I love doing and so that bottom right quadrant
of things I hate and I’m bad at that was the first thing I got rid of so then I
jumped into this was before I knew you I didn’t know tree up was an option so I
jump into thing up work in a couple other places and I just start looking
for people my biggest thing was order fulfillment it was a very mindless task
that I could give to somebody because it was literally just copy and paste in a
drop shipping situation so that was the first thing I gave away we were doing
125 isch orders a day so it was a lot of work that I was able to take off my
plate and over but then piece by piece I just followed that quadrant and figured
out what to give away of what times so that way I could focus on building the
business how do you get out of that mentality that hiring just creates more
work for you because I feel like a lot of people they go into it they’re like
alright I hate doing these things I’m gonna hire someone but then at some
point they’re like oh this is taking too much time I’m just gonna do it myself or
their systems aren’t what do you teach your clients to get over that yeah so in
a lot of cases what I do is I I take a step back and I show I show the client
what it would really cost for them to not put that person in place so I tell
them like how much money are you wanting to make per hour and usually their
answers somewhere between like the fifty and five hundred dollar range or
whatever the case may be depending on the industry and so I ask them well how
much is this tasks making you per hour and they say
well probably 10 $25 an hour and I said okay how much is what it costs for you
to actually give it to somebody and with like freeeup it could be anywhere from
five to twenty five dollars an hour and I said well so what you’re telling me is
you’re making less than you want to make per hour and if you hired this person to
do it for you you could actually make more per hour and do less work of it so
is it really worth the loss of money to not train someone to do this and when
you train them the right way then you never have to train them again you just
do it once and you never train them and in a lot of cases with like loom and
zoom and all of these we’re in an age where technology is just on our side and
business arms you can literally just make stain or operating procedure videos
and put them in Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever and anytime you hire someone
new and all they’re doing is a simple task you just send them to that video
and any time we have a question they reference the video on how to do
something we were talking before that you have this processor you put your
clients for you through and I feel like we kind of started to go into it why
don’t you walk us through that process of a client comes to you they’re trying
to skill their business they’re trying to figure out hey do I need internal
employees don’t need to be hey do I need high-level freelancers you walk us
through that yeah so the first thing that we do is kind of what I did with my
e-commerce business and what I’ve done with pest control on other businesses as
well so first thing I do is we write out everything that it is that gets done in
a day in a week in a month and then we if you’re just the entrepreneur and
you’re by yourself then what we do is we do that four quadrant concept that
exercise and we figure out first what it is in that you you’re bad at it and you
hate doing a quadrant and then we start we set that aside we say okay these are
the first things to knock out so oh then we’ll take a step back and we we start
talking about what it would look like if you have a VA versus people on site and
I’ve done both and really depends on the industry so for example in pest control
you can’t really have bees because you need technicians to service homes you
need your customer service staff can be remote but you have to have
on-site staff as well so it really depends on what you’re trying to fill
however on the e-commerce side a lot of that can be remote because if you’re
doing order fulfillment customer service wherever the case may be unless you’re
doing order fulfillment on your own in a warehouse you don’t really need on-site
people so we walk through that concept of what do you want your operation to
look like and what are you comfortable with as I’ve grown I’ve realized
actually enjoy having people on my team on-site
because there’s this culture that it creates and cultivates that I enjoy
being a part of but there are key things that I can’t find them locally
especially we talk about freeeup having access to people who have more
sophisticated skills whether it’s design or whatever the case may be those people
aren’t as readily available locally so being able to hire someone remotely can
be a better access so we walk through that whole process and then we just
start interviewing and then the biggest key to interviewing is people don’t
trust their gut enough that people will sit down or they’ll be on the phone I
always recommend doing the zoom interview something face-to-face even if
it’s digitally face-to-face because it really gives you an ability to kind of
read the person and see if your gut is telling you that this would be a good
addition to your team because people discount their gut way too much and they
consider the resume way too much and I we I figured out a balance of both
through all of my businesses and I helped my clients to do the same thing
so that way they can build a business they actually have fun running rather
than see only my hip and babysit people to do a job instead and how does this
process change let’s say if it’s a newer business that’s just having success for
the first time that needs to hire their first person to someone who might have a
bunch of people already working with them but it’s not organized enough and
you need to really go in restructuring how does that process change so I
actually feel sorry for the people who are already further along that realized
they need to change something because then it gets painful I run in this
situation with a few different clients and the the basics are still the same
stuff to figure out like what needs to get done and who needs to do it but when
you’ve had people the first step you have to do before you start interviewing
people is you have to back up and say okay are the people that I have right
now actually accomplishing what it is that we need to get done and if I were
to interview them again with my gut actually tell me know that this person’s
not a good fit so there are times where you then have to back up and assess your
current situation and you don’t have the right people in place you got to go
through the hard task of getting rid of those people and it’s not like I try to
when I talk to clients I try to tell them firing people isn’t being mean if
you’re wanting to fire them it’s probably because neither of you enjoy
being there so you’re really releasing both of you from hating your life for 8
to 12 hours a day so do it rip the band-aid off and
tomorrow you’ll breathe a lot easier so that that’s really the big difference is
you got to make some hard decisions on your personnel right off the bat any
other firing tips because I feel like we don’t talking enough about firing a
petition has it it saw me through that subject that no one really wants to hear
but any other tips for someone who might be scared out of their mind or they’re
afraid that someone’s gonna blow up or hurt their business or any of the common
fears that entrepreneurs have yeah there’s it’s really a mental shift for
the business owner as far as what firing is again it’s not like it’s not like
you’re going in and being mean and hopefully you’re not a mean person
you know as a business owner what we really did was anytime someone came into
our business one of the things we told them was we want when you come in we
want you to learn as much as you can possibly learn not just because we want
you to be good here but because we want to set you up for success in your own
life in general and so when you show people that you actually care about them
beyond just showing up and doing work for you and they see that you have a
vested interest in them becoming more than who they were so when I train
managers to or business owners to hire people I always
tell them look the while you’re interviewing and while you’re training
people always keep this in mind your goal your job is to help that person be
better tomorrow than they are today and if you can do that a they’ll do more in
your business tomorrow which means your business is gonna succeed and be they
will love you for doing that and they’re never going to hurt your business if
they know that you love them so that’s the that’s the first step in it the
second step is make sure you’re setting them up for success sometimes when you
think you need to fire someone you need to back up and say okay did I actually
train them properly in order to do their job do they give them tools they need if
the answer is no you should actually be firing yourself you need to be saying
you need to put in the effort to actually train those people if both of
those things are there and they’re still not succeeding then you need to have a
conversation with them and be honest about a dolt there’s too many people
that dance around the conversation and then no one knows where the other person
stands and it really just needs to be an open conversation and a caring one that
is hey this is what the expectation is what your role is this is what we need
from you what do you need from us in order to help you accomplish that when
you’re on the same page moving forward then at that point if they still aren’t
performing the way you need then you have the right to say hey look this
obviously is a good fit it’s not you’ve proven that you had that you care for
them over and over again so I’ve actually had people there’s a I love to
tell the story so there’s a I had a manager that she but she had some life
changes that happen in her life and for a couple of months I could tell she was
just miserable so we sat down we had a conversation about it and come to find
out before she had gotten a job the reason she got the job with me it was
she had just had kid and she needed to just find a job so she could have income
the child’s father was no longer in the picture so she was on her own trying to
make money but before that she was trying to go to school to be a special
education teacher so we worked through some things
I got a little better for a couple months but it just reverted right back
to her being miserable so finally I sat her down it’s like look I’m I’m going to
let you go but it’s not necessarily because you don’t do a good job it’s
because you’re obviously miserable here and you need to go back to school and
you need to do something you need to do what you really want to do and at that
point she was at a point where she could so she did she went back to school she
hated me at the moment she was miserable she didn’t like the fact that she was
getting fired but a couple months later she called me up and she invited me and
my wife to her wedding because yeah because she realized like getting fired
was actually the best thing she could do she could have done because she went
back to school she got her degree she started working as a special education
teacher and she loved it and so she was completely happy and if
it wasn’t for the fact that I actually spent time trying to care for this
person I never would have known that and if you can spend time caring for people
you don’t need to worry about firing them need to worry about is is you being
here good for both of us and if it’s not then maybe you need to go somewhere else
I think that’s a fantastic point because I think one of the questions I always
get asked is about risk of hiring and and you’re right if you come from a
place where you actually care about the people and it’s about building
relationships that percentage doesn’t go to zero but it goes way down yeah
definitely talk to me about the whole investment
things I think that’s where a lot of people struggle as well let’s say you
make a bad hire and you catch it out on a week one okay you haven’t made that
much of investment pretty easy to part ways now as you get further and further
along you’ve invested money you invested time other resources into them how do
you figure out whether you should keep trying to go into someone and turn them
around or get them back to where they were before versus just cutting them off
and starting off with someone new yeah there’s a couple different things that
you’ll hear out there in the world like for example don’t throw good money after
bad do you really throw more time and money
instead of keeping them around and training them but then you also have
those stories of like some made a mistake and it cost a company 3 million
dollars do you fire them or do you look at that as a three
in dollar investment into their training and that’s always like a which which one
do you choose right so the way that I usually look at it is did they actually
learn from the previous mistakes if they’re constantly learning and changing
and growing and they’re not making the same mistakes over and over again and
they’re not a cancer to your culture then they’re a good investment I mean
when you think about it when you think about your own investment into yourself
into building your own business you make mistakes when you’re a solopreneur when
you’re starting your business you made mistakes the question is did you learn
from them and move on if you didn’t you are not a good investment into your own
business but if you did you’re good investment into your business so use
that same philosophy if they’re learning if they’re growing and not making the
same mistakes and I’m gonna repeat again if they’re not a cancer to your culture
we’ve had plenty of people that did their job just fine but they were a
cancer to the culture and that’s why we got rid of them because they’ll just
bring other people down and when other people are on their way down in the
culture and morale then usually their performance comes with it now there’s
been great what what else did I miss what other tip can you share with the
audience before I before I let you go honestly I think that’s as far as
scaling and finding the people that you need those are the good basics it takes
it takes experience it takes practice just like anything interviewing hiring
firing all those things they practice you get better out of time just keep
caring for the people that are coming into your world and you’ll usually make
the right decision love it thanks so much for joining us
where can people find out more value and what are you most excited about for the
rest of the year they can find me on Facebook Matthew Ryan is is my name on
Facebook just connect with me if you have any questions let me know for the
rest of the year I’m actually looking and excited about expanding MNM coaching
which is our business operations marketing coaching program so I’m just
bringing on you know new clients people who are really passionate about growing
their business and scaling your business so that way I love
to see people scale their business and the excitement that it brings for
themself awesome Matt thanks so much for joining us and I’m sure we’ll be in
touch for the rest of the year also thanks a lot
hey everyone thank you so much for watching
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